33 replies to this topic

[Alfalfa]

If you were able to make a Mario game, how would you make it? What would be different?

[Luigi Box]

Something involving Luigi and casino's.

something like that

[Sarisa]

My friend and I once mooted the idea of a Mario spinoff turn-based strategy game.

The premise is that you play as Princess Peach, commanding the Mushroom Kingdom's army from your castle, including the super-units Mario and Luigi. You have to stop Bowser and the Koopa Troop, who are launching an old-fashioned direct invasion. We never got into the battle mechanics, but when commanding Mario or Luigi it could be a sidescrolling stage with the objective of killing all the enemies, similar to the SMB3 wandering Hammer Bros or NSMBWii enemy courses but longer (against regular units) or a boss fight (against Bowser's super-units like Kamek and Wendy).

For more replay value, there should be the option to play as Bowser and conquer the Mushroom Kingdom.

[Sgt. Fly]

The series has been an absolute mess since around 2009. I've got a lot to say for this topic.

-I'd stop pulling things from old games and trying to pass them off as new. I'd actually invent new concepts instead of thinking "Hey, let's bring back the Raccoon Suit, those dumbasses will eat that up". There would not only be new power-ups, but new core abilities and the like.

-Different level archetypes. Grassland, cave, desert, forest, underwater, castle, volcano; Level archetypes in this series don't extend far beyond these. I don't see why Nintendo keeps reusing these, I can think of plenty of new ones right on the spot. Factories, outer space, swamps-- Heck, you don't even have to invent entirely new archetypes. Just change the tired aesthetics of existing level types and they'll be much more refreshing. Like, try giving the desert levels a nighttime or sunset background, or change the forest levels to have dead trees and mist everywhere. Yoshi's Island did this very well in the past, learn something from that game, Nintendo.

-Give the series a graphical overhaul with 2D hand-drawn sprites. Me and Senor had a discussion a few days ago about how 2D Mario artwork looks fantastic, but the actual in-game 3D models are unremarkable, and have even grown stale over the years due to how little they've changed since the early GameCube days. For future 2D platformers, I'd propose a new graphical style similar to what was featured in Wario Land: Shake It. I'm not sure how much effort hand-drawn graphics take in comparison to 3D models, but it'd be just the kind of visual refreshment the series needs.

-Have some sort of a story. I don't care if it's Mario. Mario is still a video game, and video games always benefit from intriguing stories. it wouldn't have to be a dramatic or sappy one that interrupts the gameplay, but it would at least shake things up from the typical kidnapping escapades that most Mario games have.

-Get rid of the lives system. Really, why does this still exist? Not only is it completely pointless in any game with a generous saving/checkpoint system, but oftentimes when players go out of their way to find secrets, they're rewarded with nothing but useless 1-Ups. I'd like to give them something a bit more practical.

-Have Mario gain abilities as he progresses. Mario games have always given you all of your moves from the get-go. I'd like to try making something where Mario just started off with being able to run and jump. I'd put in secret exits that lead to levels containing items (like World's switch palaces) that expand Mario's moveset with things like the triple-jump or the spin-jump. I'd at least like to give players more of a feeling of progression.

[Sarisa]

Sgt. Fly, on 31 July 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

The series has been an absolute mess since around 2009. I've got a lot to say for this topic.

-I'd stop pulling things from old games and trying to pass them off as new. I'd actually invent new concepts instead of thinking "Hey, let's bring back the Raccoon Suit, those dumbasses will eat that up". There would not only be new power-ups, but new core abilities and the like.

Agree.

Quote

-Different level archetypes. Grassland, cave, desert, forest, underwater, castle, volcano; Level archetypes in this series don't extend far beyond these. I don't see why Nintendo keeps reusing these, I can think of plenty of new ones right on the spot. Factories, outer space, swamps-- Heck, you don't even have to invent entirely new archetypes. Just change the tired aesthetics of existing level types and they'll be much more refreshing. Like, try giving the desert levels a nighttime or sunset background, or change the forest levels to have dead trees and mist everywhere. Yoshi's Island did this very well in the past, learn something from that game, Nintendo.

Agree.

Quote

-Give the series a graphical overhaul with 2D hand-drawn sprites. Me and Senor had a discussion a few days ago about how 2D Mario artwork looks fantastic, but the actual in-game 3D models are unremarkable, and have even grown stale over the years due to how little they've changed since the early GameCube days. For future 2D platformers, I'd propose a new graphical style similar to what was featured in Wario Land: Shake It. I'm not sure how much effort hand-drawn graphics take in comparison to 3D models, but it'd be just the kind of visual refreshment the series needs.

I don't care much about graphics; there's a "wow" factor the first time I see revolutionary new graphics, but other than that if they're as good as SMB2/3 they're good enough for me. SMB and other very early NES games are too primitive for my taste.

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-Have some sort of a story. I don't care if it's Mario. Mario is still a video game, and video games always benefit from intriguing stories. it wouldn't have to be a dramatic or sappy one that interrupts the gameplay, but it would at least shake things up from the typical kidnapping escapades that most Mario games have.

This may be the one feature of SMB3 that hasn't come back since the SMB3 revival started in 2009, although SM3DL had a nod to it in the between-worlds storyline with Peach escaping before being recaptured. The problem is that there are only so many Bowser storylines to write. Bowser kidnapping Peach? Done to death. Bowser making off with priceless magical artifacts that allow him to conquer the world? SMB3. Bowser randomly oppressing some harmless creatures? SMW. Bowser creating a universe without Mario in it? SMG. Bowser arranging for Mario to be kidnapped? LM. Bowser just messing with Mario to enliven his vacation? SMS.

What the Mario series could use to change the familiar Mario/Bowser/Peach dynamic is compelling new side characters, but Kamek doesn't have room for growth, Rosalina must not have worked, and Toad hasn't been seen for years (most likely he evolved into Toadsworth and the colored Toads).

The only other way I can think of to freshen up a Mario story is to make Bowser's plan a mystery at the beginning, and that's already been done in SMS and to a lesser extent SMB3. Altering the plot based on what the player does (e.g. if the player goes to different worlds depending on some condition, NSMB style, change the plot dialogue to fit) would be new to the series.

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-Get rid of the lives system. Really, why does this still exist? Not only is it completely pointless in any game with a generous saving/checkpoint system, but oftentimes when players go out of their way to find secrets, they're rewarded with nothing but useless 1-Ups. I'd like to give them something a bit more practical.

That's not a bad idea. Lives meant something when you couldn't easily save and could easily see a game over screen, but just dying and having to restart the level is incentive enough to not die.

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-Have Mario gain abilities as he progresses. Mario games have always given you all of your moves from the get-go. I'd like to try making something where Mario just started off with being able to run and jump. I'd put in secret exits that lead to levels containing items (like World's switch palaces) that expand Mario's moveset with things like the triple-jump or the spin-jump. I'd at least like to give players more of a feeling of progression.

I don't like this. It steps on Zelda's toes, and I'm used to having all basic abilities available at the start. I was quite annoyed when I needed a special plot item to use timed hits in PM.

[Harvest Ty]

I think new archetypes would be terrific. Imagine platforming in a town, sewer, beach, or maybe even a Hotel! It would be neat if they incorporated world gimmicks like with the bad traction in ice levels. Say in the space world you would move slower but have incredible jump height, or maybe in the Hotel you have to avoid hitting certain people as they are guest. I could imagine the beach having a tide, which can slow you down or maybe you could slowly sink in the wet sand if you don't move.

I think that the game itself had been rehashed too much with NSMB's. Even some of the new power-ups like the Squirrel suit seemed to be ripped off from the cape. Maybe they could try something new like the fast flowers from SPM. Imagine going through a platformer with intense speed. or maybe something out there like Peach's umbrella which could make jumps go farther and could be used to Defend oneself.

I also agree with the no life system, It's become way to exploitable as of recent Mario games and really serves no other point nowadays, but to exist.

Playing as someone other than Mario could be fun. Imagine platforming as a koopa, or maybe a toad. It's kinda far out there, but it would be fun to see a new face in the platformer.

Regarding storylines, personally the Mario series in whole wasn't built for storylines. In fact only the Mario RPGs themselves have had really anything of a story. Yea it would be cool to have a story, but it just seems like something that won't ever happen.

[Sgt. Fly]

Sarisa, on 31 July 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

This may be the one feature of SMB3 that hasn't come back since the SMB3 revival started in 2009, although SM3DL had a nod to it in the between-worlds storyline with Peach escaping before being recaptured. The problem is that there are only so many Bowser storylines to write.

I'm sure fans wouldn't mind if the series left Bowser out of a few games. As a comparison, King Dedede was the Bowser of the Kirby series during its early days, but it eventually started to include new villains like Zero and Marx, while still keeping Dedede relevant to the games. I think it would be healthy for the Mario platformers to adopt some new antagonists, like the Mario RPGs did.

Harvest Ty, on 01 August 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

I think new archetypes would be terrific. Imagine platforming in a town, sewer, beach, or maybe even a Hotel! It would be neat if they incorporated world gimmicks like with the bad traction in ice levels. Say in the space world you would move slower but have incredible jump height, or maybe in the Hotel you have to avoid hitting certain people as they are guest. I could imagine the beach having a tide, which can slow you down or maybe you could slowly sink in the wet sand if you don't move.

Gameplay gimmicks could certainly be interesting, but it's best to avoid things that would impede the player's progress, like the slowdown effect you suggested for space levels. The moon in PMTTYD had that effect, and remember how annoying that place was to traverse? Besides, platformers are supposed to be speedy in nature, so mandatory slowdown would definitely not be welcomed by players.

New level archetypes can just be there for atmospheric appeal as well, sometimes there's no need for a gimmick.

Harvest Ty, on 01 August 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Regarding storylines, personally the Mario series in whole wasn't built for storylines. In fact only the Mario RPGs themselves have had really anything of a story. Yea it would be cool to have a story, but it just seems like something that won't ever happen.

I actually once thought Mario platformers had a future in the storyline department, seeing how Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy put an unusual amount of effort in to their plots. They had a good thing going there, I don't understand why they decided to drop it from Galaxy 2 and onwards.

[Chaoxys]

They most likely wouldn't get rid of the lives system because then the coins wouldn't surve any purpose. Lives may be meaningless now but you can't tell me you don't find yourseld chasing after a run away 1up from time to time. Besides, having lives in the game doesn't do you any harm so I don't see the issue with keeping them.


As for what I'd have in a Mario game if I made one? Well, they can keep the classic world themes, but they should think more about what these locations may have. An ocean world doesn't have to simply be "Underwater and beach". No, it can have a vertical lighthouse level, a sunken ship, a harbor, ect.

[Pluto]

I don't really have any ideas for an entire new Mario game, but generally I'd like to see another 3D Mario game (like Sunshine/Galaxy), preferably with some plot to it. I'm not looking for something particularly elaborate, but a change would be welcome. I liked having the storyline in Sunshine, in particular, and something like that would be great. So I agree with what Sarge said about story, pretty much.

I also agree that some new types of levels would be a good change. Different takes on the current themes alone could certainly add some good variety.

[Mr. Y]

How would I make a Mario game? That's what fangames are for

In addition to all that's been said (especially story), there's also one more thing I'd give the 2D games: more engaging bosses.  This may be just me though.

I don't understand why they still give the Koopalings the same pattern of "shoot magic, hit three times, get inside shell" and save the ax-and-bridge "battle" for Bowser, as if they are contractually obligated to do that or something.  They did things differently for them in the past, so why go back to the basics now?

Super Mario World had a few interesting (albeit easy) ones for the Koopalings, like the one where you have to push Iggy into the lava, or the one where Lemmy hides inside pipes.  Yoshi's Safari and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, weren't even platformers, but they still had variety for each Koopaling, with increasing difficulty to boot.  

Give them different amounts of HP, give them their own abilities, give them weaknesses other than being stomped on three times, make sure they actually have a fighting chance.  In short, do what Yoshi's Island did for the world bosses, except more than just having Kamek change the arena with his magic.

As for Bowser, there's the Koopa Clown Car from SMW, while not really a challenging final boss, it was still pretty fun (helped by the awesome music playing in the background).  Much better than that dang ax-and-bridge "battle" they keep rehashing, in my opinion.

I know these games aren't known for their bosses, but still: if other 2D platformers of this generation like Donkey Kong Country Returns, Rayman Origins, and even Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II deserve to have cool boss fights, then the New Super Mario Bros. games deserves them as well.

Edited by Mr. Y, 01 August 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[megamariobros.]

I thought once of haveing a mario game where you mix power ups 1 mushroom 1 flower and 1 other. like propeller + fire + hammer bros. suit = fire hammer propeller mario to give an example. New power ups will be added it will be a 2-d platformer that is all I got.

[MrSexyBunsWithCheez77]

Use those characters!-They have plenty of characters.  Why don't they use them?  Why does it always have to be the dry Mario saves Peach plot.  What they got against making Waluigi playable in something besides a sports game?  What about saving Daisy again for once?  She would be a better damsel in distress for a Mario Galaxy game.
Considering she was already kidnapped by aliens before, she would be the perfect choice.  Heck bring out Stanley
the bug man.  Or how about a DS game for the origin of Rosalina?  She had an interesting story.  Or
Toadette even.  That's a lot more creative than using recolored Toads.  Point is the Mario series has plenty of
characters yet they only use them for the sports series... and sometimes not even that.

Mix it up a little.-Howsabout making a game with 2D and 3D levels.  That would be interesting.  Or how about using the percentage system instead of using lives.  That way we can also use that fire flower for more than five seconds.

An SMB2 based game.- what ever happened to Wart and Mouser.  Maybe make a 3d platformer based off SMB2.  Again, that goes back to using them characters.  

[Nick Gonzales]

A Mario MMO would be so cool!!!

[Sarisa]

If lives are infinite, coins could be used for health refills as they are in some 3D games and collected coins could be used to buy access to more areas (instead of special coins) and buy items from Toad Shops. This could lead to farming worlds for coins to buy that P-Wing, but that's no worse than farming worlds for lives.

The early 2D games had different Bowser battles each time: SMB had the now-done-to-death axe-and-bridge setup, SMB3 was an endurance contest (trick Bowser into using his ground pound to break through all the bricks and plummet to his doom), SMW had the Koopa Clown Car, and YI had the charging giant Baby Bowser. SM3DL's Bowser "battle" is in the SMB3 tradition of dodging Bowser's attacks until he does himself in but much longer and lacking the slight puzzle aspect. The 3D games still have variety in Bowser battles between games, but IMO every Bowser battle should be different. And the collapsible bridge over lava should be put back into the game-element vault for another 20 years. Unfortunately I don't have a good idea at the moment for a 2D Bowser battle; Bowser battles don't need to be hard, but they should be epic.

[Sgt. Fly]

Yeah, that's another thing, we need a real reason to collect coins. Take a cue from Mario Land 2 and let us SPEND the coins we collect. Simply being able to buy power-ups again would have me going out of my way to collect coins, whereas now I just ignore them completely.

[megamariobros.]

I thought of an idea where mario and luigi have a sister and it would be a mario and luigi rpg and they would save a prince from some one that cristine has a crush on that she meets a an international kingdom meeting.

[Chaos Kin]

Anyway for me, just add in voices sans Mario and Luigi (like in Sunshine) in cutscenes, and let them appear more often.

[Modesty]

Mario war.

Basically like super smash bros but in the form of a rpg like FE

Imagine, you control you armies of yoshis lead by mario against hordes of kremlin and their leader K.rool ^^

[Ventricle]

...How 'bout no?

[Sgt. Fly]

Posting something negative without no explanation like that isn't a very good contribution to the topic, Ventypoo.

[Modlegram241]

a mario real time strategy game

[Ventricle]

Ah, but the topic calls for "how" you'd make it.

Me, I've always wanted to see a Mario TRPG, or some form of Mario RPG that utilizes a job system. You'd be able to build a party of generic drones (probably limit to the ones that have been portrayed as nice, including Toads and Piantas) and they'd all have a Mario-y job class (Bandit, Pirate, Guard, Salesman, Healer, Wizard, Adventurer, Fighter, ....Actor/Actress maybe?).

[Sgt. Fly]

Could be interesting. I have personally never been fond of job systems in RPGs, character customization that robust and varied tends to be a bit overwhelming to me. It also suffers from some balance issues, what with some classes being much more/less useful than others.

I like RPGs that choose to have you work with - and make the best of - limitations that you are given, while still giving you opportunities for customization and upgrades. Mario RPGs in the past have done a swell job with this.

[Sarisa]

There's a consensus that some sort of Mario tactical RPG would be a good idea, since the same idea has been mentioned by four different people, and most of the ideas mentioned in that vein could be spliced into the same game with a bit of modification. Something like Final Fantasy Tactics, perhaps?

[tomato42]

I would make a NSMB game
with many old Power-ups and some new ones
Worlds would be
W1: Grass world, Miniboss: Larry Koopa, Boss: Goomboss
W2: Desert world, Miniboss: Morton Koopa Jr., Boss: Tutankoopa
W3: Beach world, Miniboss: Wendy O Koopa, Boss: Gooper Blooper
W4: Forest/Jungle world, Miniboss: Iggy Koopa, Airship Boss: Boom Boom, Boss: Petey Piranha
W5: Snow/Ice world, Miniboss: Lemmy Koopa, Boss: King Boo
W6: Mountain world, Miniboss: Roy Koopa, Boss: King/Big Bob-Omb
W7: Sky world, Miniboss: Ludwig Koopa, Airship Boss: Pom Pom, Boss: Lakithunder
W8: Lava world, Miniboss: Bowser Jr., Airship Boss: Kamek, Boss: Bowser(who else?)
Star Coins: Signs, New Characters
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